Peter Joseph wrote:
I have to say to everyone that I am continually amazed at the perpetual judgment

It's called being accountable for what you say and do, Peter. Being judged comes with the territory of being a public figure. If you can't handle being judged then get out of the spot light.

arrogance

You're the most arrogant person here (a.k.a "locked"). What do you think gives you the authority, in a non-authority society? Because you made a popular video? Is it because you read Jacque Fresco's book a couple years ago and listened to his audio recordings that you think you're magically more intelligent than everyone on Earth, that you're the only one who has ever heard of this concept and thus only you understand a Resource Based Society? There are 6 billion people on this planet. Don't think just because you haven't heard an idea that it hasn't already been around. And just because you made a popular video promoting a RBE (which you admit you never even thought of until someone pointed it out to you) doesn't make you an expert and it certainly doesn't give you any authority.

There is no State. That includes you.

and conceit that some of you put forward on this forum.

Here you are guilty of the same. Your response reeks of arrogance and conceit.

The fact that the term "promoted" is stated above makes it even more idiotic.

Isn't that one of the forum rules that you created? Or is it because you created the rule that you get to break it? Who gets to moderate the owner? Oh, that's right, nobody. Because you own the website. And there is no discussion or wiki on creating a community website and talk about how to moderate discussion collectively instead of using hand picked moderators.

And yes, what you are doing with the stickies is in affect promoting yourself. Why didn't you join in the discussion about making sticky creations a community effort?

www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/inde...limitstart=20#275515

Let me walk you through this - whoever you are.

Until this moment, I was a strong supporter of Zeitgeist who has been gaining insight to the structure of Zeitgeist and working to ease discussions toward distributing power among everyone and I've already pointed out some of the tools on how to do that.

I am also a person who has a lot more experience in organizational development and leadership than you do. So it would serve you well to listen to everything I have to say. Your arrogance will be the failure of Zeitgeist.

Before myself, I know of no one besides Jacque and Roxanne that talked on the subject of a RBE.

Congratulations on being the first passionate person other than them to get yourself on a couple of media channels and buying a domain name. So you think you're the only person who was aware of a resource based society while engineering solutions to solve problems rather than create laws? That's concete right there!

I spent 12 hrs a day researching, creating materials, writing the PDF, creating 4 2 hr+ lectures, writing articles for newspapers, traveling ... to give talks for free, doing interviews and then having a weekly radio address where i did nothing but be tortured by 100s of the same questions, over and over again, patiently working to resolve them.

And we all thank you for your efforts. Others, including myself, would do the same just as soon as a leaderless system of management is implemented.

I have spent between $15,000-$20,000 on this websites administration/programming/bandwidth since it began and I now operate on a monthly deficit.

Why haven't you posted your "bills" for verification and scrutiny on the use of funds? A Resource Based Society is a community effort and we all have our resources and the community can intelligently manage those resources openly.

So then mentalities like you

Whoever I am, right? You already said you don't know who I am. Suffice it to say you don't have my knowledge and expertise. Not even close, child.

who obviously have no clue about what we are even talking about in the movement based on your threads

Give an obvious example.

come along and actually have the balls to say my work is essentially too "promoted" here.

The problem is your work is the only work promoted.

Listen

I'm listening because it's about time you finally got involved in an actual discussion that I've started. That must mean that people are listening to everything I say about the need to spread website and forum management to the entire community. A discussion that has been going on for an entire week which you haven't responded to any of.

I don't want to be the forefront of anything. I can't stand it. I was recognized the other day in a restaurant and it made me shudder. I am doing my best to push myself into the background and get others out there to speak and present the movement.

That's not good enough. You're just part of the community. You're not suppose to be "in the background". To prove to us all that your true intent is to create the type of society that The Venus Project advocates, you must be part of the talks regarding leaderless, community management of the website, forum and philosophy.

So - please - have some tact and respect.

I have been very respectful toward you and everyone. And I have been very tactful about addressing your lack of discussion or endorsement of discussions or efforts to distribute control to the community instead of hand picked moderators.

Also, there is no such thing as "my point of view" here- I am simply restating the data that has been collected.

That's a strawman. The issue is that you control the website and won't allow the community to post "what has already been collected". Additionally, telling me that there "[is no my] point of view" is very dishonest.

Manila English wrote:
[quote]Apparently the way TVP handles conflicts is via censorship of an entire organization? Is that what you're advocating?[quote]

Peter Joseph wrote:
This is even more hilarious...where do these people come from?

These people? Who are "these people" exactly? And who are you to wave off criticism? You're just one motivated person, who newly discovered TVP after its 30 year existence. Your passion and investment in the project over the last couple years is very admiral and I am thankful to you and respect you for the success of spreading Jacque Fresco's vision.

By the way, I've received all my information from Jacque Fresco's recordings just like you. I've read the book just like you. I've seen the TV interviews just like you. I also have my own brain and can think for myself. I've traveled the wold. In fact, I live abroad. I speak a few languages. You could be trying to make an ally here. Your conceit limits you. I'll be waiting for you apology yet don't expect I'll ever see it.

If you think the RBOSE has anything to do with what TZM/TVP is actually doing/advocating, you are way off.

Again. You actually have to read through all my posts to address me properly. I've already stated that I've discovered RBOSE only recently. What I've seen is that they advocate a Resource Based Economy, a city to support a RBE and they actively support an open society where anyone can participate. That last part you have stated is something you say you advocate in one of your videos yet don't actually do.

So instead of trying to wave me off or ban me from your forum for addressing these issues (which would result in yet another new blog advocating against Zeitgeist instead of for it), how about you address the real issue and tell us the differences between RBOSE's philosophy and Zeitgeit's.

It was Jacque Fresco who said that "A church divided is no church at all". Not that TVP or RBE is a religion. Only that this statement applies for all organizations, not just churches. And Carl Sagan said (I was watching him on PBS before you were born by the way) that we are all one organism and an organism at war with itself is doomed.

Peter Joseph wrote:
[LOCKED]

Yet the dictator implies there are no leaders (and thus no dictator), nor that he "promotes" his thoughts above others.

So what are you going to do, Peter? Are you going to continue to be hostile toward supporters and further splinter the movement? Or are you going to acknowledge everything I've said, take the criticism as an intellectual, put aside hostilities towards me by apologizing and become willing to work with me on creating a community powered solution?

Do you usually make out-of-context thread posts in which you talk about being intellectual and working things out rationally and yet you make snide insults? Peter is by no means a "dictator", have you forgotten the state and national chapters which act on their own? I too would like to see a more open-source approach but it's not like he is a dictator.
And nice job adding the words "arrogance and conceit" into his quote...

You know, I've been reading your posts, and it seems like you've had an agenda since you joined the forum.

I think what you fail to realize is that the movement doesn't belong to P. Joseph anymore.

It belongs to you.

Oh, how can I explain this... phase 1... spread awareness...

It's like a franchise.

You subscribe to the ultimate ideal of the movement, so you set up your own 'franchise,' like, you're an 'independent owner' of a 'larger company.' I hope you don't mutilate this statement, But everything in your 'micro-business' would be handled by you and yours until you inspire MORE franchises to pop up. Now, now, I hope I don't see a reply that says something like, "Oh, so we're a business now? Huh? Who OWNS it? Who's the top dog, the CEO, the head honcho?"

I think these people, no matter how you feel about them, have stumbled upon this crazy idea to change the world. So they want to organize it as much as they can until it's just this self-sustaining 'thing.' Peter Joseph, Jacque Fresco and company are like thought-initiators: they want this to flame of a thought to explode so out of control that they won't have to worry about hidden agendas and outside sabotage anymore, it will spread out of their hands. But it has to start somewhere, and I think that's tzm/tvp mission. I may be wrong, but who knows? The easiest way to kill a movement is 'immediately.' I don't think JF, PJ, VTV, RM want to risk that happening.

So you start the movement of these ideals in any way that you want. It's YOUR movement. Start a group where you are, delegate it the way you want; we're all on the same side, I think. You know the plan, go implement it! Go off into the world and start a wiki, open sourced voting thing.

Leaders don't want to be leaders. Real leaders, anyway. They just are. So be one.

Wow ok....

Your post manilaenglish2 is just so full of contradictions I don't even know where to start. First of all you say Peter is being arrogant and immature and you start this thread and "call him out" so to speak. If you have a problem with Peter why didn't you just send a private message?

Ok lets see some of your contradictions.....

You're the most arrogant person here

Then you go on with crap like this.....

I am also a person who has a lot more experience in organizational development and leadership than you do. So it would serve you well to listen to everything I have to say. Your arrogance will be the failure of Zeitgeist.


That is the claim of someone in love with their ego...

I have been very respectful toward you and everyone

Yeah right...

Not even close, child.


Yes very respectful.

I'll be waiting for you apology yet don't expect I'll ever see it.


Hahahahaha

So instead of trying to wave me off or ban me from your forum for addressing these issues (which would result in yet another new blog advocating against Zeitgeist instead of for it)

Threatining to make blogs against the movement if you get banned, you are a really pitiful person.

And Carl Sagan said (I was watching him on PBS before you were born by the way)

Again another pointless, arrogant statement.

Yet the dictator implies there are no leaders (and thus no dictator), nor that he "promotes" his thoughts above others.


Just because the thread was locked (considering it was a pointless thread to begin with) you say he's a dictator. This is a forum and your making it out to be like some huge thing that a thread was locked or someone can get banned on an internet forum, seriously grow up. For someone calling others "child" you really are very immature indeed.

Look here if you want to know how someone becomes a moderator
www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/inde...tid=60&id=189021

About banning and suspension...
www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/inde...tid=60&id=154761

Have you actually read the rules by the way?
www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/inde...99999&func=rules

Your original thread was concerning not enough people giving lectures and doing stuff for the movement apart from Peter. This was a completely false assumption:

Ben Mcleish - vimeo.com/user3541570
Andrew Buxton - thevenusprojectdesign.com/
Brandy - www.youtube.com/user/TVPchallenge
Douglas Mallete - www.youtube.com/user/TZMSocialEvolution
VTV - v-radio.org/
Thunder - He also does radio shows
oh and www.zeitgeistmediaproject.com/

Don't forget the hundreds of US state chapters and International chapters doing their own stuff. So before you make sweeping allegations against people check your facts please.

You're amongst extensionally similar beings on a universal journey that even those of utmost intelligent perceive incorrectly.

Madz3000,

Yes Peter and are both arrogant. So why aren't you pointing out how arrogant Peter is as well as myself? Ah, that's because you're a self-appointed gatekeeper.

So far, nobody has even addressed my arguments. I'll I see is side stepping and a few personal attacks.

Read up again on how moderators are chosen? Another strawman.

If this is a people's movement without leadership, then why is moderation and website development dictated while all discussion on empowering the entire community to handle moderation ignored by the dictators who over see the site.

I'm sure Peter can defend himself. Let him reply and I'll reply to him. This is being discussed in an open forum because I've seen through my own research that this issue has been addressed already again and again, yet the issue gets side stepped, ignored or the person who brings it up is personally attacked.

All I've stated is that the we need discussion on how to most effectively distribute to all people. Not dictated to how the power is being distributed.

As far as starting my own movement - There's already the workings of a movement here and new organizations splintering off. Why reduplicate the work and create yet another splinter group? We should be working together. But if the moderators of this forum isn't interested in pursuing the RBE philosophy then I will give my support to another group or if another group turns out not to have the intention of removing all central power, then I will help create another group.