Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE
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TOPIC: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE
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Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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After some recent discussion regarding a correspondence with David Suzuki we felt that this matter needed to be addressed.
Back in early 2009, Cliff Faber (coordinator of Zeitgeist Canada) sent a
letter to David Suzuki, introducing him to The Zeitgeist Movement,
including a Zeitgeist: Addendum DVD and an Orientation Guide booklet.
Within 48 hours, Cliff received a disheartening response (quite similar
to Noam Chomsky’s). Below is the original letter Cliff sent, along with
Suzuki’s written response. I will break down his response underneath.
“ To Mr. David Suzuki
My name is Cliff Faber.
Current monetary problems can be addressed easily, but NOT by our
political system. Our current political system is not set up to deal
with TRUE solutions or open to moving in that direction. In fact, TRUE
solutions go against EVERYTHING that our current political system stands
for in its entirety. So the hungry faces of the millions of citizens
looking hopefully toward the government to provide solutions to making
the world a better place is never going to happen.
I feel that we need to give people REAL alternatives, so that they, the
people, can make better “knowledgeable” choices and not just rely on
what the government says.
Social problems result from scarcity. When a few nations control most of
the world’s resources, there are going to be international disputes no
matter how many laws or treaties are signed. If we wish to end war,
crime, hunger, poverty, territorial disputes, and nationalism, we must
work toward a future in which all resources are accepted as the common
heritage of all people.
Our problems cannot be solved in a society based on money, waste, and
human exploitation. Today, money is used to regulate the economy for the
benefit of the few who control the financial wealth of nations. Unless
the underlying causes of planned obsolescence, environmental neglect,
and outrageous military expenditures are addressed, we are bound to
fail. Treaties, blockades, boycotts, and the like used in the past have
not worked.
Many believe that ethical standards and international laws will assure a
sustainable global society. Even if the most ethical people in the
world were elected to political office, without sufficient resources, we
would still have the same problems. What is needed is the intelligent
management of Earth’s resources for the benefit of all and protection of
the environment.
Earth has plentiful resources. Rationing resources through monetary
control is dysfunctional and counterproductive to survival. Today, we
have highly advanced technologies but our social and economic
development has not kept up. We could easily create a world of abundance
without servitude and debt through the creation of a global,
resource-based civilization.
Please enjoy this DVD.
Thanks,
Cliff Faber”
David Suzuki’s response (typed out underneath):
“ Dear Mr. Faber:
I am returning your material. I only read the first chapter but I
disagree so much with it that I do not feel it worth my time. We are at a
critical point and science and technology have to be part of the
solution, but I do not believe we have the knowledge to create the
future your project and I disagree with your dismissal of accumulated
knowledge and insights over thousands of years. In many ways, we have
become savages that are often thought to be what people once were.
David Suzuki”
...
Now, let’s break this down.
It is very discouraging to witness such a close-minded response from a
well-respected scientist and environmentalist like Suzuki. Of course,
all people, including “scientists” are subject to the cultural
limitations and perverse value identifications that our modern cancerous
society imposes upon people.
Suzuki: “I only read the first chapter but I disagree so much with it that I do not feel it worth my time.”
I will assume by chapter 1 he is referring to Part 1 of the Orientation
Guide, entitled “Monetary Economics: Mechanisms & Consequences”,
which details the colossal detriments of the monetary system,
referencing absurd symptoms of our economic structure like the need for
cyclical consumption (and consequently, the outrageous waste produced),
inferior products & planned obsolescence, environmental neglect, the
creation of [mostly artificial] scarcity, etc.
I wonder what about this Suzuki claims to disagree with. Surely he is no
stranger to the insufficiency of the market structure with relation to
the environment—something he spends a great deal of time fighting. As an
environmental activist, one would think that he would attempt to
address the causes responsible for the symptoms he’s fighting. If he
supports the monetary economic system, he is nothing more than another
self-appointed guardian of the status quo, with the naïve goal of
fighting an economic model that is inherently unsustainable, corrupt and
environmentally exploitative.
Suzuki: “We are at a critical point and science and technology have
to be part of the solution, but I do not believe we have the knowledge
to create the future your project...”
I assume he meant, “the future your project proposes”, or something similar.
I wonder then, since he agrees science and technology have to be part of
the solution, what his solution is? Again, does he ever address the
foundational aspects of society that cause the problems in the first
place? Of course, given that he likely spent less than half an hour
examining the information before projecting an ignorant response, he is
unfamiliar with the aims of The Venus Project. Let’s assume he is
familiar though – which “knowledge” are we lacking to create a
Resource-Based Economy (RBE)? As will be discussed subsequently, a RBE
is a base economic model that uses resource management as its foundation
with the goal of peak sustainability. The best possible technologies we
then utilize become optimally harnessed based on the current stage of
technology. A RBE does not rely on specific technologies.
Suzuki: “...and I disagree with your dismissal of accumulated knowledge and insights over thousands of years.”
This is a semantically loaded statement and can be addressed from multiple angles.
--- 1) We’re not dismissing knowledge that mankind has accumulated
over the years. What we are advocating is using known elements—in fact,
the best of what science and technology has to offer—and putting them
together under a foundation of a new socioeconomic model that harnesses
and embraces this potential. If we maintain the current structure, then
we will be dismissing the knowledge and potential.
--- 2) History is replete with examples of academic scholars
ignorantly and arrogantly projecting their erroneous assumptions about
what is possible in the future. Here are a few humorous examples:
I) Television won't be able to hold on to any market it captures after
the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood
box every night.
- Darryl F. Zanuck, head of 20th Century-Fox, 1946.
II) There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home.
- Kenneth Olsen, president and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.
III) "Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction".
- Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872
IV) "We are probably nearing the limit of all we can know about astronomy."
- Simon Newcomb, astronomer, 1888
...
--- 3) Accumulated “knowledge” from the past is constantly being
overturned, updated and expanded upon. The Zeitgeist Movement and The
Venus Project do not have fixed proposals, but rather a “systems
approach” methodology upon which to structure society. Of course, Suzuki
won’t be aware of this, as this was not “worth his time”.
Sadly, this grossly ignorant response from a revered “scientist” and
“environmental activist” is common amongst those who have created an
established position for themselves within this market economy, and they
suffer from the same paralyzing mindlock that any other average human
being would. If these are the types of people we look up to in this
society, it is easy to see why we are in such a dyer societal
predicament.
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Re: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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I am being very
disheartened by people I used to respect, I have come to the conclusion
that they are really no better than even the worst capitalist bankers,
they have found a 'niche', a way to make themselves 'money' out of the
system and a way to feel 'important'. ..... so they aren't interested.
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Re: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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Well I guess that
explains why he didn't reply to my letter of inquiry when I wrote him a
couple of months ago. He did, however, happily take my donation, and
sent me a letter asking me to become a monthly donor.
I am tempted to us that SASE that was included to send him a letter
saying that I'll become a monthly donor when he takes the time to read
more than one chapter, or at the very least sit down and watch Z:A.
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All the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
-Victor Hugo
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Re: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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Listen there are plenty
of very intelligent people out there who do support this movement. One
of these days I'll record one of the philosophy club meetings that I
attend; it is lead by two university professors, he has published a
couple books on reasoning--practically everything they is verbatim from
the tenants of this movement; and he knew absolutely nothing about the
movement until I told him about its existence.
We should target individuals who already have radical perspectives. It
is not simply a matter of intellectualism, it is also a matter of
seeking radical change. Most people have one but not the other.
Timidity rains supreme in the status quo; we must target the radical intellectuals.
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Where are you located?
"It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind."
Voltaire
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Re: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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This makes me alittle
miffed. I wrote about this on my blog. We should all get together and
contact him through his foundation and tell him that if he ever wants
our support as a movement that he should at least read our documentation
and state precisely what he disagrees with.
We should be polite, but we should emphasis that we represent 400,000+
people globally (and growing!) and that we want what he wants.
www.davidsuzuki.org/about/contact/
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All the forces in the world are not so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
-Victor Hugo
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Re: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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Vasper85 wrote:
This makes me alittle miffed. I wrote about this
on my blog. We should all get together and contact him through his
foundation and tell him that if he ever wants our support as a movement
that he should at least read our documentation and state precisely what
he disagrees with.
We should be polite, but we should emphasis that we represent 400,000+
people globally (and growing!) and that we want what he wants.
www.davidsuzuki.org/about/contact/
thanks, but due to his short msg allowed, i only sent the following message :
"During times of universal deceit…”
Fellow citizens, fellow residents, but, ultimately, fellow thinkers and
toilers: this is a call for action; action, for the time being,
demanding no more than that which comes natural to every living thing
that can think--to think. But to think willfully, with a diligent
pursuit for the truth.
forum.lowyat.net/topic/1616890
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Re: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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I think we should try
to contact Severn Suzuki maybe she is more in touch with the current
state of technology and is more willing to look at these concepts and
tackle the economy problem as she is being doing in recent lectures.
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"You never change things by fighting
the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes
the existing model obsolete."
-Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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I have been thinking we
should try a different tactic with all these people who so obviously
dismiss the RBE idea without even having made any attempt to understand
it...... Perhaps we could sort of make them have to study the idea by
asking them to provide us with a good reason why a half a million people
and growing are wrong to support it. Perhaps even ask them if they
could debate their reasons for not supporting it with someone like PJ or
Neil or even Roxanne and Jacques.
I am always interested in seeing if someone can actually give a good
reason for thinking we would be better off with just trying to fix the
monetary system........I sure can't see one. I can only see an ever
worsening future for the world. The only arguments I have seen against
the RBE idea have all been completely baseless.
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Re: Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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I am very surprised at
his ignorant and lazy response, both in terms of not reading past
chapter 1 and the grammar of his reply letter. He should technically
advocate everything we do if he truly respects the planet and its
natural way of life.
I wonder what Peter would think of his response.
What should we do as a movement to his response?
Steven
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Re:Letter to David Suzuki – and his RESPONSE 2 Weeks, 4 Days ago
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“Dear Mr. Faber:
I am returning your material. I only read the first chapter but I
disagree so much with it that I do not feel it worth my time. We are at a
critical point and science and technology have to be part of the
solution, but I do not believe we have the knowledge to create the
future your project and I disagree with your dismissal of accumulated
knowledge and insights over thousands of years. In many ways, we have
become savages that are often thought to be what people once were.
David Suzuki”
People often ask me still why we do not "collaborate" so to speak with
other activists/ environmental organizations. This is because all of the
protocols / traditional approaches of the current activist community,
on all levels, are based on an establishment worldview that has and will
continue to fail. Mr. Suzuki's response is a case in point of an
individual who holds a tremendous amount of weight and hence established
view of social change... and hence any thing that challenges that view
is like challenging a religion. Most activist groups act like
corporations at this stage.
Now, with regard to David's exact points it is an immature and
irresponsible refutation which makes no sense whatsoever. First of all,
the first "chapter" of the orientation guide which I assume he was
referring to since the first chapter of the movie is only about the
fractional reserve system, only lays out the patterns of the economic
system and says nothing about what a resource-based economy is. So from
that point alone he obviously has taken zero time to understand
anything.
As far as his statement about a "dismissal of knowledge"...Where did he
even get that? what does that even mean? if anything, it's the absolute
opposite.
So, I am saddened to see such blind dismissal, especially from people
who claim to want real change. No -- they do not want real change. They
want the change that they assume is correct and since most of the highly
revered activists have successfully acquired a great deal of income
support for their work, it is a natural propensity for them to think
that the monetary system is okay since they are being supported by it by
their so-called activist initiatives. This is the paradox. The bottom
line is that the change needed will not come from the pre-existing
activist establishments. They are detached from any reference to the
wholistic system. This goes for the entire spectrum as I see it.
Greenpeace -- Michael Moore -- Annie Leonard and all the other heavily
revered social and environmental activists of our time continue to
refuse to look at the system from the broadest perspective and see the
fatal flaw... either that or they just don't understand it. But frankly
believe most blinker it out due to their monetary success.
The activism community on this planet is dead. They are locked into the
box and do not see beyond it. They are angry puppies neatly kept in
their state run kennel. Even more, all activism over the past five
decades has failed time after time. nothing has changed in any
substantial way. The civil rights movement while helping over all was
replaced by an economic form of violence/ segregation. voting rights for
women and minorities was overcome by the propaganda machine of the
state and the patterns/values of voting have not changed at all. the
environmental community pretends it has progress when it is a fact that
every life-support system is (still) in decline on this planet and
getting worse.
So, I challenge any activist group to tell me where their true progress
is both from a broad social and environmental standpoint- long term.
They use the legal system and the legal system is open for perpetual
change based on the whims of any new politician. It doesn't matter how
many ships Greenpeace boards -- it doesn't matter how many slave labor
camps are shut down -- it doesn't matter how many antiwar protests
emerge on the streets of Washington-- it is simply a matter of time
before new methods of abuse and exploitation and advantage crop up...
just like roaches coming out from under a refrigerator because the
spoiled food/socioeconomic system is still there.
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A human being is a part of the
whole...He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something
separate from the rest - a kind of optical delusion of his
consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison...Our task must be to
free ourselves from this prison - Albert Einstein
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