I think the relevant point here is that certainly not enough people are getting it fast enough.
A close friend of mine, who after much discussion could understand and
accept the conclusions of TZM said that if we are successful it will
mean that when the collapse comes our ideas will be the ones people will
put forward.
Even if we cannot facilitate sufficient organization to prevent a
collapse, the imperative to engage in the organizing efforts is no less
important. The central ideas we advocate, which I consider to be the
concepts of emergence, symbiosis and sustainability (or as I like to put
it- survivability) will have to be accepted if there is ever to be any
kind of global society in the medium term.
If an important task becomes impossible, it becomes that much more important.
Lately--from
research--which I spend half my time doing online-- I have been figuring
that we will have to run out of oil for people to wake up and then an
RBE will be proposed-- I don't think people losing their homes and jobs
will do anything--just put people in a survival state--instead of a
problem solving state. But if it all grinds to a halt then there is
nowhere else to go and nothing to stand on anymore and people will have
to begin anew and there will be no choice but an RBE/RBE or die. I hope I
am wrong--but the conditioning/brainwashing is so deep within
people--they call it "human nature" though it has nothing to do with
that at all.
peterjoseph wrote: Talon...notice what he said right after
"that can only be overcome by total global collapse, if the debt/expansion game is adhered to."
Meaning if we continue to hold on to this game the only way it will end is in global collapse...
Thank you.
The game can be stopped at anytime. There is no technical need for
collapse - only for the bio-social pressure to influence the public
awakening.
It doesn't have to be this way. The public is still so clueless overall
(and yes, I know we 'here' are understanding - but we are obviously
overshadowed by an extreme majority.)
This isn't happening fast enough. My fear is the arrival of a tipping
point that will make it even more difficult to overcome than the status
quo/mind lock pathology we have now with the majority.
My personal realization is a complex one at this point as the research I
am doing has shown some trends which I find beyond belief with regard
to the decline of nearly all life support systems in the established
order. More than that, the psychology of the masses isn't mature enough;
hence informed enough; hence associated with the sustainable values
enough - to reconcile any of the component attributes which are needed
to comprise the logic that depicts the profound emergency at hand.
The fact is, The Movement will likely not be able to handle the full
collapse that is coming after the fact - we have to stop it before it
fully matures... and this brings things to an entirely different level
of problem solving which I had not anticipated.
VenusFreedom777 wrote: peterjoseph wrote: Talon...notice what he said right after
"that can only be overcome by total global collapse, if the debt/expansion game is adhered to."
Meaning if we continue to hold on to this game the only way it will end is in global collapse...
Thank you.
The game can be stopped at anytime. There is no technical need for
collapse - only for the bio-social pressure to influence the public
awakening.
It doesn't have to be this way. The public is still so clueless overall
(and yes, I know we 'here' are understanding - but we are obviously
overshadowed by an extreme majority.)
This isn't happening fast enough. My fear is the arrival of a tipping
point that will make it even more difficult to overcome than the status
quo/mind lock pathology we have now with the majority.
My personal realization is a complex one at this point as the research I
am doing has shown some trends which I find beyond belief with regard
to the decline of nearly all life support systems in the established
order. More than that, the psychology of the masses isn't mature enough;
hence informed enough; hence associated with the sustainable values
enough - to reconcile any of the component attributes which are needed
to comprise the logic that depicts the profound emergency at hand.
The fact is, The Movement will likely not be able to handle the full
collapse that is coming after the fact - we have to stop it before it
fully matures... and this brings things to an entirely different level
of problem solving which I had not anticipated.
How? Other than what we are doing now?
I will keep proposing the best idea I can think of, and that is (either
right now) or when the third film arrives so we have a more current
focal point to reference we have to go on massively organized awareness
campaigns.
We dont have the numbers to march in the streets, and if you've noticed
that does little to nothing except give the media a chance to smear you,
or if your less lucky -- get shot with rubber bullets and attacked with
riot shields....
No..that is not way to go.
The way to go is get as many people organized as we can a specific times
to call (or write) specific programs or stations that have big
audiences. If its coordinated our odds of being able (collectively) to
get our idea across could prove to be more effective than anything.
Im sure we have all been doing the basics...(handing out dvds, using
social networks, talking to people we come into contact with.)
But its proving to not be enough.
We have to force it onto platforms that people are listening to --watching--or reading.
But it has to be as many of us as possible, and it has to be coordinated for maximum effectiveness.
Obviously this isnt the total solution but given the trends staring us
all right in the face I think its safe to say that if we want a chance
of turning things around before the "tipping point"...we have to kick
shit in to overdrive, and what better time to do so then when the new
film comes out..
Peter if you read this, I truly believe that if objectives were sent
"from the top" if you will, in an obvious, easy to find, well
communicated fashion that we could make an impact...but trying to
organize via forum threads or just in local chapters likely wont be
enough...
If things are posted on the main page, with specific times, numbers,
etc...with enough time for people to be aware of I think its our best
shot of drawing awareness to the new film and the overall direction that
we HAVE to go..
SpiralIntoNothing wrote: VenusFreedom777 wrote: peterjoseph wrote: Talon...notice what he said right after
"that can only be overcome by total global collapse, if the debt/expansion game is adhered to."
Meaning if we continue to hold on to this game the only way it will end is in global collapse...
Thank you.
The game can be stopped at anytime. There is no technical need for
collapse - only for the bio-social pressure to influence the public
awakening.
It doesn't have to be this way. The public is still so clueless overall
(and yes, I know we 'here' are understanding - but we are obviously
overshadowed by an extreme majority.)
This isn't happening fast enough. My fear is the arrival of a tipping
point that will make it even more difficult to overcome than the status
quo/mind lock pathology we have now with the majority.
My personal realization is a complex one at this point as the research I
am doing has shown some trends which I find beyond belief with regard
to the decline of nearly all life support systems in the established
order. More than that, the psychology of the masses isn't mature enough;
hence informed enough; hence associated with the sustainable values
enough - to reconcile any of the component attributes which are needed
to comprise the logic that depicts the profound emergency at hand.
The fact is, The Movement will likely not be able to handle the full
collapse that is coming after the fact - we have to stop it before it
fully matures... and this brings things to an entirely different level
of problem solving which I had not anticipated.
How? Other than what we are doing now?
I will keep proposing the best idea I can think of, and that is (either
right now) or when the third film arrives so we have a more current
focal point to reference we have to go on massively organized awareness
campaigns.
We dont have the numbers to march in the streets, and if you've noticed
that does little to nothing except give the media a chance to smear you,
or if your less lucky -- get shot with rubber bullets and attacked with
riot shields....
No..that is not way to go.
The way to go is get as many people organized as we can a specific times
to call (or write) specific programs or stations that have big
audiences. If its coordinated our odds of being able (collectively) to
get our idea across could prove to be more effective than anything.
Im sure we have all been doing the basics...(handing out dvds, using
social networks, talking to people we come into contact with.)
But its proving to not be enough.
We have to force it onto platforms that people are listening to --watching--or reading.
But it has to be as many of us as possible, and it has to be coordinated for maximum effectiveness.
Obviously this isnt the total solution but given the trends staring us
all right in the face I think its safe to say that if we want a chance
of turning things around before the "tipping point"...we have to kick
shit in to overdrive, and what better time to do so then when the new
film comes out..
Peter if you read this, I truly believe that if objectives were sent
"from the top" if you will, in an obvious, easy to find, well
communicated fashion that we could make an impact...but trying to
organize via forum threads or just in local chapters likely wont be
enough...
If things are posted on the main page, with specific times, numbers,
etc...with enough time for people to be aware of I think its our best
shot of drawing awareness to the new film and the overall direction that
we HAVE to go..
Thoughts??
A small step in the right direction--hopefully something most chapter
members and such already realize--but like you said-it is not the total
solution.
Well not for one minute
have I believed that we have the luxury of having many years of a
'slowly' collapsing society to give us the time to get this idea out to
people. I sure haven't given up hope, but my original excitement has
turned a bit to despair after finding out how hard it is to get through
to people. I have managed to get some ordinary people 'interested' but
the thing I really don't know how to do is make anyone see the
importance and the urgency of this. Strangely I had believed this idea
would very quickly spread amongst all the intelligent and wealthy
'thinkers' who are in much better positions to influence the masses than
we are. I was sure they must all be well aware of the impending
disastrous future and would easily see the RBE idea as the only possible
way to prevent it. There is no doubt how much it would help if the
masses started hearing it from the people they look up to, the people
who are successful in 'this' system.
peterjoseph wrote:
The fact is, The Movement will likely not be able to handle the full
collapse that is coming after the fact - we have to stop it before it
fully matures... and this brings things to an entirely different level
of problem solving which I had not anticipated.
Is there a change of direction coming for the movement?
But, obviously we will have a problem with semantics here, but mind
control is possible. If you haven't heard of Derren Brown before I would
recommend watching some of his clips on youtube. He uses NLP
techniques, cold reading, covert conversational hypnosis, suggestion,
and other forms of subliminal messaging (as well as a whole lot of
showmanship) to get people to do what he wants with amazing results. In
one of his TV shows, he played a short video clip of some wiggly lines
and various sounds with a subliminal message within it to cause 20% or
so of tv viewers to become stuck to their seats. Now I believe that
probably had more to do with hypnosis/suggestion but there are many
other examples of subliminal messaging at work within the same show.
Here it is:
There is another show where he was able to make 3 out of 4 people
perform armed robbery on an armored cash truck officer (fake, controlled
situation) using covert hypnosis and suggestion without them even
knowing it. He invited a group of people to a motivation seminar and
embedded hidden commands in his presentation. He triggered a hightened
aggressive/motivational state to the color green and also to a Michael
Jackson song as well as a increased tendency to steal/take. The show
concluded with the subjects walking down a street seeing a green cash
truck, an actor acting as a security guard, and a car driving down the
street blasting the Michael Jackson song and BAM!! 3 out of 4 of them
held up the officer (with a toy gun they were given but not told what it
was for) and ran of with the cash. Incredible. And scary. Here is the
video:
Check him out just for fun. Very entertaining and he does a good job of
debunking all kinds of ghost whisperers, psychics and other forms of
charlatans because he is much better at it and the best part about him
is he tells you exactly how he does it.
John, I would say that technology you talk about is possible (in theory)
but it is quite silly that you expect us to believe you without given
any evidence whatsoever. It is also quite disrespectful to criticize
anyone for being skeptical. Skepticism is a very important quality to
have. It is absolutely necessary for scientific thought. It is how you
"challenge authority". Without it we are supposed to believe someone
based on some kind of perceived intelectual authority. It is up to you
to provide the evidence, not us.
peterjoseph wrote:
...The fact is, The Movement will likely not be able to handle the full
collapse that is coming after the fact - we have to stop it before it
fully matures... and this brings things to an entirely different level
of problem solving which I had not anticipated.
In that case, lets lay out the problems and get to systematically solving them.
We do have a lot of members; even if not enough, I'm sure we can at
least acomplish something. So far we've been so focused on gaining
members and recognition that nothing else has happened, and we actually
loose members because we don't have much to show for what we are about.
We really need a working model city, even if it is so basic that it
doesn't resemble models of TVP at all. That in itself would cause a huge
spike in publicity and membership.
