@ Nanos- you are completely off topic dude.

@lizardman- How about this for an order: Watch addendum
Read FAQ of TVP
Watch orientation guide
Visit your regional chapter site.


People will need to take the initiatave for themselves just as we all did. The above should be enough knowledge to begin with understanding the proposal.

The test would probably be unnecessary if not for the troll factor.

The analogy is that we should all have to take the test, not just newbies for it to be at least fair..

Or at the very least, take the test and self ban ourselves if we fail..


For once, Vixi and I find ourselves on a common page here.

Peter, we don't need to get rid of the test. The test wouldn't even be an issue if you were allowed to see what questions you got wrong, then find the right answer. How is that going to curtail the efforts to screen the trolls. I never said anything about how hard it is to wade through the troll crap, except to empathize. I said there was a valid reason for the test, but just telling them that they didn't pass,without giving them the opportunity to even find out what questions they got wrong so they don't have to bump around in the dark, just seems like a little revenge on the trolls.(I know...nobody said revenge. I just said that it looks that way to put it into a perspective that illustrates my point of view.) You can repeat the intentions of teh test all day if you want, but everybody on this site already knows the intention. I am saying, no matter what you intended, the result you came up with does not reflect the intention. My first post was not angry, and every time you post something dismissive like, "it's just a simple open book test", tehn repeat the intention, you are showing what I was talking about in my first post. " you will not see elitism growing", because it will not look like elitism to you....Now, just because I point out the wisps of an inclining to the propensity of a certain action to lead to elitism, it doesn't mean I'm calling you an elitist. So, if you reply, I hope there is no need to address the word "elitism" as it sits in this post, and we can address the need for change in the test.
Any tool to effect socail change will always need to be enhanced and upgraded. Aren't enhancements and upgrades the very thing that will fuel a responsible society? Metaphorically speaking, of coarse. Changing the perameters of the test to include the ability to see the wrong answers is simply an upgrade to an existing tool. I'm not saying give them all the right answers, just tell them which answers are right and which answers were wrong. THEN switch all the questions. that will help it reflect the intention of controling trolls, and widening our understanding. Like I said I may be here now, but the testing process didn't give me any clearer of an understanding of the movement, all I know is a couple more quotes. And I would still have to paraphrase.

Consider realistically how many trolls have we had? Who decides what is a troll?


The test exists to make sure people do some homework before interacting. Thta's it. As of now, it has been great. We have less trolls/more quality discussion. If you can't get that - I don't know what to tell you


...Saying it excludes people is just plain wrong. You can still be a member of the site, you can still read the forums and you can still join a chapter website and post on the forums there until you can pass the test. You can still call yourself a member of The Zeitgeist Movement.

This probably wouldn't happen in my case if I failed the test a bunch of times! I go around and spread information about RBE... then a person asks me, "So, you are part of the discussion there?" And I say, "Well, not really; I am promoting the movement, but unfortunately I am not allowed to speak there.... But hold on... what's with the expression on your face?" "What do you mean you are 'not allowed to speak there'?" "Well, they say I didn't do my homework right, which should be very easy according to the more knowledgeable people there. So, they are treating me like a 'troll,' and are not allowing me to jump in the discussions till I get my test right."

Think if you had interest in writing, and you join the writing forums, and you are given a test that you fail, and can't join the discussion.... You try the figure drawing forums because you like figure drawing, but you fail the drawing test because you don't draw well enough, and you can't join.... You try the philosophy forums because you want to learn more about philosophy, but you fail because you didn't get 18 out of 20 on the philosophy test... etc.


The first thing they'll want to do is communicate with like minded people, clear questions up in their heads, and they find a barrier. Doesn't matter how low that barrier is, it will still surprise them.

I agree. I did 12, 15, 15 and didn't bother trying anymore. And I have been watching and listening 95% of the videos and radio addresses. Not all people learn & memorize information in the same way; two people spending exactly the same studying for a test will not necessarily get the same score: It doesn't work that way.

Didn't Jacque say, when a student fails you don't punish her/him with a low grade, because that way you are alienating the person!? Here, a person fails the test and is punished by not being accepted to make discussions. On, the other hand we are keeping away the "trolls." But who are the "trolls?" If you go to post messages in other forums where such views are considered too radical, then you are going to be called the "troll": I already have been, and many of you probably too. So, let's not forget that the "trolls" are also us -- posting messages in forums that do not advocate RBE. We derive our news and information from different sources, and thus we grow-up to become different people with different personalities; so, when a conservative, christian republican tries to post an opinion on this forum, such opinion would be considered laughable by such radical minds like us. We would consider that person a "troll." But if you go to the conservative, christian, republican church forums and post a message there, then you will be the laughable "troll."

What if a knowledgeable scientist, professor or philosopher is interested in the movement and wants to contribute with a discussion on some topic, that might enlighten us even more... only to experience the drawback of the test!?

"Not being cheeky but,What does this have to do with it?
I honestly think women would extensionalise more with what I'm saying here. I've said it before and I'll say it again, like it or not women and men do see things in different ways on many subjects, and understanding feelings are one of them. And having said that, how many of you guys have just raised your eyebrows and thought "Uh oh...feelings!" ?
See what I mean? I believe I've shown over the time I've been posting here that I'm not a weepy "you don't understand my feelings" type at all, what I'm trying to explain here is something that exists. Probably the first feeling that would be experienced here with not passing the test would be the result of a dented ego. It's no good telling me that ego is irrelevant, get over it and blah blah 'cos we are ALL still owners of an ego problem, each and every last one of us in one degree or another, so we can't expect someone new to automatically be without one.
"If you are really interested in the movement, you will do this A.S.A.P"
Ok, and what about those who aren't really sure yet? Those that are still trying to make up their minds about it all. Interaction with others on the forum can influence the way people decide to swing.
Dunno, maybe it would be a good idea if at the end of the next movie there's a statement saying "Join the movement, but do your homework first of you want to post on the forum."
Just so folks are prepared, lol.
ZG Hugs

I completely see what you mean about those who are not yet sure about it all. There have been a few good ideas for an alternative to the test or just tweak it a bit so you can see which ones you got wrong. I also see how it is unfair that I didn't have to do it when I joined.

As it stands, we will have to hope they either pass the test here or sign on to a regional chapter. Ultimately, we need to have action on a local level for the movement to grow and discussing it with people from your own part of the world is, in my experience, both a relief and more motivating. They will find no test there I should think.

Nanos wrote:
> All of Peter's material is the most healthy thinking you could possibly involve
> yourself in, it's good for you.

FX [ shudder ]

I don't know what FX shudder means.

I applaud the test in too many ways to enumerate. Let the newbies and trolls work the chapters and save this forum for members who have demonstrated a level of competency worthy of discussion here. I'll admit the test kicked my butt a couple times but I enjoyed it. I think it's a great way to fine tune the discussion here. It looks like it needs it by reading this thread. I haven't spent much time in this global forum because the discussion here is so vast and my time is limited, and the disagreements are everywhere. This thread is a perfect example. I've spent my entire evening reading this thread. It started like a breath of fresh air and was digressed and hijacked by alleged good intentions.

A comparative occurs to me, losing the trolls here would be like the democrats losing the republicans in a way. Instead of arguing nonsense with their adversaries they would have no choice but to focus on their own agenda, or admit they don't have one. This test seems a good opportunity to focus the agenda forward without as much irrelevant dissent. Time will tell. Either way, it's a great effort and appreciated.

I would however ask if the exact percentage of energy saved by using a mag-lev train compared to an airplane is that important to know? I still don't know what it is, I assume it's under 1%. That's what I chose every time, But, I still got 2 answers wrong, and don't know what they were. I like that though because it leaves all the questions open for further discussion. Which I hope will happen. I think it would be a great idea to discuss the questions one at time and put them up for challenge. I would come back for those discussions. And not knowing some of the answers would make it that much more interesting. I'm guessing most of us missed the same few questions.

People can argue endlessly about anything, as seen here in this thread. This test can help determine if that's their motivation, and if it is, I say pull the plug without hesitation, and attempt to move this conversation towards unification. I would love to read some discussion about the test questions here, but not arguments against the test. Those who want to argue against the test, in spirit, have already failed the test, without even taking it, I believe. Because it seems to me the test is really to determine a members intentions, not just their retention.

I liked the test and I believe it's useful for it to stay on this forum, whether or not it'll be modified in the future. It's useful for a new member to know at least the basic tenets of what TZM and TVP is all about, reducing unnecessary questions from being posted here (b4 I registered here to participate on this forum, I've studied/watched/read both movies, the orientation guide and most of Peter's and Jacque's lectures- Where are we now?, Where are we going? etc. to have an insight of what it's all about). Just my POV. And imo it's really not that hard to pass it.

the test is not BASIC tenets, it has very indepth info. And I didn't say get rid of the test, I said the exact opposite, but all the rebuttals that support the test are doing it from the standpoint that it is a discussion on wether or not to keep the test. I'm trying to get one moderator to get over his ego and have a discussion without them changing context of the conversation , at will, then ignoring us in their arrogant "we know better" attitudes. Peter I'm getting very disillusioned here, where the hell are you? I'm a very big activist for the cause, because it is everybody's cause. You can't change the staus quo until you're able to understand your own cause. By the reaction you are giving here you don't even understand your own movement any better than the worst troll, just look at "zeitguy's" elitist post, it's obviouse that your test IS CREATING ELITISM, and it has to change. All you have is a scientific theory that you are unwilling to advance past your own ego. Get back on here and show some spine, by showing that you are willing to practice what you preach even though i didn't kiss your ass in exactly the right way to get you to listen me.