I think an entrance exam is a good idea. Forcing people to answer in black and white terms when there are indeed grey areas is silly. I spent hours on this, taking the test over 25 times after having read the materials.

My two cents. Take with the typical grain of salt.

1-Wow, this came in under the radar. No discussion on it, just bang! Implimented!
Make of that whatever you will. Would have at least been nice to see a poll on the topic. Or some beta testing and feedback, or even an overview of the questions we really feel need to be asked to a newcomer. As far as I can tell, there was no discussion on this that I can find. As it stands, I only found this thread by tripping over it. For the record I don't listen to the radio stuff, partly due to the firewall I'm behind, and partly because I figure if something is important, it would be on the radio AND this forum, not either or.

2-Yes, some of the questions are subjective, but demanding sometimes an equally subjective answer, or oddly enough, a black and white answer. It does come across as somewhat disjointed.

3-Yes, it is a reading comprehension test. I get that. Perhaps though, as many people appear to be missing that fact (not criticizing, just stating the observation), perhaps we should accept that as feedback, and make it more clear somehow. Perhaps also, if at the end of the test when it gives you your score, if you don't pass, it refers you to some specific material instead of just expecting you to take it again. That might be a bit more constructive.
Taken from the test page:
The following test is to gauge your understanding about The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project. This test is not about your agreement with the movement but rather to prove that you have actually taken the time read the freely available materials on the subject. You will be given 20 random generated questions and must get 18 of them correct to acquire forum write access.

This test consists of questions derived from the following sources:
The Zeitgeist Movement Orientation Guide PDF
The Venus Project's "Designing The Future" PDF
Where Are We Going? Lecture Part 1 and Part 2
TVP/ZM Questions & Answers on the website
I'll admit, I missed that detail when I did the test. Now that I've read this, yes it spells it out that this is a knowledge test. However I would suggest a larger font, for starters. Maybe reword it, as people seem to be hinging on the wording as well.

4-Suggestion. Treat it more like a poll, less like a test. Different questions have different weightings, some answers are worth more than others (because some of your answers have very close to the right idea, but aren't the right answer per se). Use the score generated along with certain answers used, to provide feedback as to which specific material one should review. One could still use this as a 'bar' if you require one, in that a minimum score is still required.

5-Caution. I hate to bring him up (as a general rule and as a negative), but what are the Alex Jones's of the world going to make of this? They are going to call us all kinds of things. Elitist. Cultish. Question and answer like this tends to be used in all kinds of cults actually. Scientology employs the same tactic, Jehovah's Witnesses are starting to do the same. Just pointing that out.

Overall, don't get me wrong here. I do think that a minimum understanding of our viewpoint is needed, particularly to keep people from getting the wrong idea about us. I just think that the implimentation of this test seems somewhat poor (again, seems to have come in under the radar, which reflects poorly on a movement which is all for openness and transparancy), the test is obviously being misunderstood by it's own members, and opponents of this movement can and will misunderstand this test to undermine us.

On a positive note, I do like some of the uber obvious wrong answers on the test. Some are downright funny.

Zeit Guy wrote:
If a student can't comprehend them they should be removed from the class.

I think that makes you a bad teacher. Also who gave you the mantle of teacher in the firts place...


Talon_Silvercloud wrote:
My two cents. Take with the typical grain of salt.

1-Wow, this came in under the radar. No discussion on it, just bang! Implimented!
Make of that whatever you will. Would have at least been nice to see a poll on the topic.

That would have been great, but we dont vote on anything. And Peter said we have no right to demand anything. What a frightening vission for the future...

There is a test, it test based on factual knowledge retention and comprehension. Academic skills.

If you fail you cannot talk. If you cannot talk you are disadvantaged.
If you pass you can talk and are so advantaged.

Thus you would get a hierarchy where by academic intellectuals are advantaged.

So that is what the site promotes? I didn’t sign on for that and didn’t see that in any of the literature?

So in an RBE future, until we have the cybernetic brains that run everything, who will be our fearless leaders? I thought we would have direct democracy but now I am not so sure what you guys are advocating, it’s a bit worrying to me, considering the style of governance the movement currently has.

And for another two cents, my thoughts on other people's comments here.
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subnear4 wrote:
I think the test is actually an invitation to participate rather than exclude people.
Ooooh. Now we're on to something. I'm sure we could reword the part at the top to sound like an invitation to participate. Wording like 'Great, welcome. Here's something to get you started, take our test. This test will test your knowledge of our movement...blah blah blah...and will refer you to further reading to better direct you to understanding...blah blah blah...' and so on.


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michel5891 wrote:
Have the test be a trivia quiz, and post a monthly "consensus."I've been saying we should have this for ages! Maybe we do need another test, but one for fun, with the focus being more for fun and encouraging discussion.


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Fox wrote:
>You have no position/experience to request
>or demand anything from this site, myself or the mods.
True enough you own this website and I cant DEMAND anything. I can only suggest. How insignificant I am I suppose.
>This forum is not some example of what life in a
>RBE would be like and it is truly bizarre
Why is it bizarre to want to organize the movement in the way we say that society should be organized? I think it is bizarre that we don’t organize ourselves in the way we suggest others to organize in.Yeah, I'm sort of confused here too. The words practice what you preach come to mind awefully quick, and I am sure that actual opponents of the movement are going to point this out as well. I constantly see the words 'be the change you want to see' all over this forum.
I get that this is PJ's forum, it's free, paid for by the movement, and I respect that. I get that the mods are busy and I support just about any tool that helps them. What I don't get is why we aren't holding ourselves to the standard we are demanding of the world.


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Hellgorama wrote:
1) I find that the quote questions are pointless. All that matters is that people understand the material. I say we replace those quote questions with more questions that tests the new member about the tenets and general understanding of TVP and TZM.Fully agree! Who said something is not nearly as important as what was said or the message they were trying to convey.

Also, as peter says, the test does not demand that you agree with the right answers to the questions. This same kind of rule applies to how things are done within the scientific community. Before you could even shape the foundations of our current scientific laws, you must have a thorough understanding of it. Once you do you can get in and stir as much debate as you like provided that you can back your claims with logical explanation and evidence.
So in TZM once you have proven that you understand the tenets of TVP, you are free to debate about the answers to those questions. And in fact the test also helps critics because then they'll have a better understanding of what they are criticizing and thus shape their argument accordingly. Thus their criticism is more likely to be constructive.I agree with this as well. That tends to be how things work. Pass the test, you get to do x. I think the test could be more constructive. Rather than giving out the right answer, it could refer someone to the most appropriate resource to find the correct answer.


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Zeit Guy wrote:
Let the newbies and trolls work the chapters...Actually, that brings up a good point. If someone fails the test, perhaps we should forward them to a local chapter for assistance? Again, just something more constructive.


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Croatdude wrote:
(conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/answers-to-zeitgeist-testActually, people should have a read through on there. Some interesting comments popping up.

oh aaronmatch I see you've managed to come here...was the cheatpaper good?
conspiracyscience.com/forums/topic/answe...eitgeist-test/page/2

>Yeah, I'm sort of confused here too.
>The words practice what you preach come to mind awefully quick,
>and I am sure that actual opponents of the movement are going to point this out as well.
>I constantly see the words 'be the change you want to see' all over this forum.

<CLAP>

I think a cheat sheet is a very logical, smart and efficient thing to do.... Just the kind of people we need .

The issue here is not to be elitist or cultish. It's to save ourselves, and the users an awful lot of time. We get a lot of people who want to come in here and post their sensationalist concerns in all capital letters who really usually don't even know what they are talking about. The answers to their questions are easy to find. But instead of actually taking time to get to know the information they just come in here half cocked and run off at the mouth.

We waste huge amounts of time bringing them up to speed.

I don't think it's a waste of time. And saying it is can be viewed as elitist.