for me the use of this tool is obvious, and I can give you an examples, people write they don't pass on the first 5 or 6 tries but then only some who are very interested on move forward read some or watch some lectures, then pass the test and say "now I need to forget my question or topic because I have the answer", and now in latinoamerica a couple of people have say to me, mmm now I can participate on the global forum without deal on topics and questions that all we need to know, I think the test is actually an invitation to participate rather than exclude people.

Salutes
Nelson

Whoa! FOX Mulder. Take it down a notch pal. It really isn't that serious. To invoke such terms as Dictatorship etc is indicative of emotional confusion. Most importantly a misunderstanding of what Peter or whoever was trying to achieve by placing a test as a prerequisite to joining the forum. Just be humble and ask questions. Instead of taking on the position of the Affirmative, and being absolute in your questioning. Stop drop and roll bro. Your ass is on fire.

*please don't ban me!*

Have the test be a trivia quiz, and post a monthly "consensus."

It is very imperative to understand that the concept of an RBE and what TZM and TVP are about has crossed our minds continuously throughout our lives. However, we are zapped back to reality readily when we get a bill in the mail, or someone cheated us out on a used car we purchased etc., and the fundamentals of TVP and TZM are sometimes forgotten and slip the memory. Because the fundamentals - being the only answer to our issues, are continuously in contrast to our societal structures and what is. Sometimes I find myself posting things that are seemingly out of context, or the conclusion could be drawn that I didn't watch Z movie or read Peter's lectures etc, but it's not that; I just need to be refreshed. This happens to most of us and that's why we are here. I can depend on a fellow Boarder to point me back to what Peter said, or Jacques. I don't mind it. Someone may query this to be a form of indoctrination. Ehhhhh. I'll stop there.

*I'm not banned yet!*

>You have no position/experience to request
>or demand anything from this site, myself or the mods.

True enough you own this website and I cant DEMAND anything. I can only suggest. How insignificant I am I suppose.

>This forum is not some example of what life in a
>RBE would be like and it is truly bizarre

Why is it bizarre to want to organize the movement in the way we say that society should be organized? I think it is bizarre that we don’t organize ourselves in the way we suggest others to organize in.

 Why don't we vote/poll on the color of the site?

Why not. That would make me feel much more part of the movement. I think a study in UK Education said that Comic Sands was the most accessible and easiest to read. So using the scientific method should the website be upgraded to take this into account? Or are we supposed to upgrade our thought processes but not the website.

I am just teasing with the last one, but its food for thought.

Dude you're going to get banned! Stop while you're ahead! Peter, and other persons that ensure the forum is up and running are dealing with things unbeknownst to both you and I. We wouldn't understand it and should empathize and not make this an issue. Just be grateful that you're still allowed to post and participate on the forum. Look on the bright side - we'll have newer members with less irrelevant banter and conversations. Works you, me, other members, Peter and the moderators.

Michel5891 Hahaha, funnily enough first time someone has hit me with the Fox Molder thing <LOL>.

I don’t think I will get banned, and if I do I don’t want to be a member of something that wouldn’t want me to be a member . And in all seriousness it would have bigger implications.

I am sorry if I did imply Peter was a dictator. I didn’t mean to, I am sure he is a great guy and I love his lectures and movies. I also admire they are free when he could have tried making a buck out of it. If I did offend anyone I am deeply sorry.

I am just saying that technically that’s the form with how the site/movement is run. Even in his material he says the workplace is a form of dictatorship so I was just carrying that on to the movement itself. I wanted to point out that it didn’t have to be and stimulate a bit of thought.

VenusFreedom777 tried to say I was wrong but if you look at it his definition he kind of proves what I said.

He Said = Form of government in which one person or an oligarchy possesses absolute power without effective constitutional checks……and control of the mass media.

The mods and site owners are an oligarchy that are in technically in control of the site. As I was told I have no position to question or demand anything. Arguably the site is the Zeitgeists main communication hub so by controlling that they do control the zeitgeist mass media too.

Again sorry if anyone is offended. I think the mods and founders are cool and hats off to them for starting this thing. But that doesn’t change the spacifics.

But this is leading us off topic and isn’t about the test.

-.- wow, perhaps all this frustration with the test comes from the fact that veteran members were told they failed when they got 16/20 or 15/20 which can be a grand slap in the face. Couple more suggestions from me:

1) I find that the quote questions are pointless. All that matters is that people understand the material. I say we replace those quote questions with more questions that tests the new member about the tenets and general understanding of TVP and TZM.

here's an example of a question:
What type of farming method will allow food to be grown anywhere (even in the middle of the desert or even arctic tundra or even in space), if proper irrigation is provided?

a)crop rotation
b)hydroponics
c)haber process
d)genetic modification of crops

2) Provide the right answer for any wrong selection by the new member, along with a small explanation of why it is wrong.

Also, as peter says, the test does not demand that you agree with the right answers to the questions. This same kind of rule applies to how things are done within the scientific community. Before you could even shape the foundations of our current scientific laws, you must have a thorough understanding of it. Once you do you can get in and stir as much debate as you like provided that you can back your claims with logical explanation and evidence.

So in TZM once you have proven that you understand the tenets of TVP, you are free to debate about the answers to those questions. And in fact the test also helps critics because then they'll have a better understanding of what they are criticizing and thus shape their argument accordingly. Thus their criticism is more likely to be constructive.

Regarding TZM website being somewhat of a dictatorship: We still live in TMS and must operate within its confines to a certain extent to get things done. This website is considered property (AFAIK) of Peter Joseph in our current system, and thus he has the right to exercise full control over this website. Afterall he pays for all the expenses for maintaining this site. This website isn't a place where people live. Also there is nothing Peter could do to stop you from making a TZM-like website of your own that promotes TVP and the RBE (provided you got consent from Jacque Fresco or Roxanne Meadows), and thus there is nothing Peter could to prevent (bar-in) people from not using his website. Dictatorships on the other hand, can use its military to stop people from leaving, and has the power and the means to attack and destroy rival nations.

peterjoseph wrote:
All tests are comprehension tests. This test, however, is not about agreement- it is about understanding(rote) the material only. The Qs are also not that hard.


You can have personality tests, physical tests, aptitude tests and others. By comprehension I mean reading a text and asking questions on it.

One question was what was the name of a report done in such and such a date… Is it important that I know its name or what it was about and its implications?

Well, I have been here from the start- I know how poor the average understanding has been. As far as a beginner forum, I feel that would be wasteful, for the data/direction is in the materials. Why ask basic questions in a forum when the answers already exist?

That’s fair enough. Although sometimes it easier to ask a person. Also it can provide more insight and answer questions that may not have been adequately answered. For instance will there be laws at all or what to do with those that break them, how will you educate them?

Yes it is subjective - such is life in the human thought arena.

Fair enough.

The central problem here is the quality of the questions. I believe we as a movement can come up with many great questions that are simple to grasp, but test the real understanding. This is why, once again, I propose a forum thread.

To demonstrate, I took the test a second time. Here is an arbitrary question:

Social design must be most directly correlated to:
a) The state of population growth
b) The opinions of the population
c) The carrying capacity of the Earth
d) The rate of technological change

Obviously the carrying capasity of the Earth depends on: 1) the number of people ihnabiting it and 2) the state of the technology that is used for harvesting and distribution of resources.

Another one:

What is the main, core reason why the Venus Project's resource-based economy is needed?
a) Social values are too distorted and need renovation.
b) Our current system is simply unsustainable.
c) Money will result is growing elitism and stratification.
d) Poverty is growing exponentially.

Maybe for somebody the central reason is because of the distortion of values. Some people are more concerned about the dominant mentality than the unsustainability of the system. This question, as I understand it, is about one's personal opinion on the matter. It is entirely subjective, because it is philosophical. There is no way (for now) to scientifically arrive at this one.

Another:

The human being's value systems and information-based ideas are shaped most dominantly by:
a) Parents
b) Genetics
c) Culture
d) Friends

This is a psychological question. According to many psychologists the most important period when a person's personality is formed is when he is a child. This means answer a). Of course, parents are the medium between the culture and the newly born individual. So I guess here both answers a) and c) are possible and maybe equally correct.

And another:

A central demand of the scientific method is:
a) Empirical Referents
b) Experimentation
c) Testing
d) Intuition


Umm... I don't get the difference between b) and c).

But there are also good questions like:

A resource-based economy is best defined as:
a) A NWO trick to reduce the population
b) A social system designed to manage resources, automate production/distribution and remove money and trade
c) A theory dealing with energy distribution through credits
d) A social system based on no money, with a strict, equal amount of resources given to citizens


So we need just to improve the test and I think most of the complaints will be gone.

P.S. This time I got 19/20 lol. I guess now I have to be in favor of the test as it is...

The questions in the test are really very broad. Forum Thread! I Second that. The test based on discussion here deems to be very divisive and separatist. I am saying that because it is obviously beginning to breed contempt.